Oppo PSA, ALWAYS get a PPI for any used car!

"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
10/25/2017 at 08:05 • Filed to: None

What I originally thought was just a check in the box, peace of mind thing has now unravelled into the best $100 I have ever spent. There is a 2006 Saab 92x Aero with 66k miles, no rust, and reported by the seller to have no mechanical issues. Being an extremely clean looking California car, this seemed to be an amazing deal at pretty much ANY price. Easily a $10k car if it were on Bring a Trailer that was a smoking deal at the agreed upon $8600. So I jumped on the idea, told the seller I’M IN! and figured out the finances and the logistics. While planning this I had a spark of intelligence and decided a pre purchase inspection was not just a good idea, it was absolute necessary before I get there.

Haha damn thats so clean!

Now its basically a Subaru WRX and these are often abused and known to face expensive problems. I knew this going into the ordeal. I expected some issues to come up and be able to knock the price down a couple hundred bucks and fix the stuff myself. BUT being a Subaru, it ended up facing the dreaded headgasket issue! Its not DANGER ZONE, CAR IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE, it is in the first stages of head gasket leakage. The shop doing the inspection made it clear though that a leak is a leak and that the sooner you deal with it the better.

I asked for a price quote on everything wrong and this was the end result:

Headgasket $3-4k - would also have to add timing belt job “while im in there”, this is an engine out item so I really cant do it myself

Clutch parts $850 (labor included in headgasket job - $650 labor add’l otherwise)

Brake pads and rotors $6-700 in parts ($300 labor but I would do it myself)

Shocks $550 in parts ($500 labor but I would do it myself)

This would put me at a MINIMUM of $5000 in repairs to do if I left just the hard stuff to a shop. Sure I could shop around and get those prices down but thats still going to EASILY be $4k all things said and done.

So spending $100 has saved me $4000! This car is still special enough and clean enough that I would buy it at the right price. But I now have hard bargaining tools that the saavy shopper could use to make this car quite affordable. I had been budgeting for a head gasket replacement within the next 2-3 years anyways but I hoped to get a solid 30-40k miles out of it first.

Overall this car is most certainly not a $10k car in this condition. Our original $8600 is also crack pipe territory. Without the headgasket/clutch repair needed? Sure its still worth $8k to me. With that as my starting point, I have to find a price point that I am comfortable with.

At a MINIMUM I need to take that $4k cost, take 50% of it off the $8k figure and there is my price. That puts me at $6k. Is this car worth $6k? Absolutely! But I doubt the seller is that interested in losing that much money. He could fix this stuff himself and then sell it for $10k and easily end up ahead of the game. I am not in it for money though, I just want a fun reliable car to drive. And with the issues listed, its too much of a risk to pay more than that.

The logical pragmatic side of me says RUN THE FUCK AWAY. The adventurous side of me says just do it, its worth it even at $7500 (my guess at his minimum)! But when I make some compromises between the two I say no matter what I will not pay more than $7k. And if I am paying over $6500 I am getting a bad deal. And its not a good deal unless its $6k or less.

Local WRX market (note these are not even wagons) shows lots of WAY more expensive options in worse condition.

Moral of the story is ALWAYS get a PPI! This story will continue later today when I hear from him. He wanted to talk to the shop to understand how bad the issues are before we talk about a fair price. So stay tuned!

Another solid option I have found. Basically the same car but with that same maintenance completed. Selling for $11k! But more than double the mileage!

Might just want to go with that one instead!

DISCUSSION (20)

shop-teacher > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 08:39

Good luck with your negotiations!

Good write-up too.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > shop-teacher
10/25/2017 at 08:48

Thanks. I’ve come to terms with my predicament after having a night to sleep on it. At first I was confused, upset, and mad. But now I have a plan to find a positive solution and my backup plans if it doesnt work out. Yeah I already got a loan and set up insurance and moved my flight. But I can cancel the insurance (havent been charged yet) and the loan I can apply to another car without too much trouble. The flight problem will mean im taking a bus from SF to LA most likely but such is life.

It was a risk worth taking and still has a chance to pan out. But Im not going to take the extreme risk of paying a lot for it. I tend to write better when I have a clear and focused mind so this worked out well!

brianbrannon > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 08:56

Every used turbo Subaru needs 5,000 in repairs... Just accept it

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > brianbrannon
10/25/2017 at 09:05

I am, but not at full price. I have come to this realization. This is why that WRX with 147k miles is listed for $11k because of all that stuff being fixed. I would probably still take it for $7k just because WRX tax. But any more than that seems like crazy talk to me.

This is a very good opportunity for a good deal to me. The seller shot himself in the foot by plainly stating NO ISSUES and then the inspection says $5k plus in issues. It means a solid $2k off from a negotiation standpoint.

Schaef_Camaero Z/28 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 09:10

Oh shit. Didn’t see that coming.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Schaef_Camaero Z/28
10/25/2017 at 09:51

I kind of did because Subaru. But thats what inspections are for! The seller is not malicious at least, otherwise he is just really bad at it scamming people lol. I think its a case of not being familiar enough with the car. He probably bought it somewhat abused and got a fast one pulled on him. He is likely losing A TON of money in any sale under $10k. So my $6k offer might make him mad but I gotta draw the line somewhere. Facts dont lie and while its an expensive estimate versus other independent shops I bet, its good ammo for my fight for a good deal.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 10:33

Looking at the photos you posted yesterday, I am not concerned about the dirty area by the oil filter, the car could easily go another 40k without issue, my nearly new outback is dirtier than that. the 2.0t and 2.5t engines have much better head gaskets, this is not an EJ25. Secondly the subframe dent actually concerns me. What do you have to hit to do that type of damage? Jump a median? drive over a parking block? I would remove and replace with new. 10/10 I would still buy this car but dude is not going to go lower than $8k. Good luck!

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
10/25/2017 at 10:35

Well yeah I was thinking this shop is just EXTRA picky. The shop has seen hundreds of WRXs and they plainly stated the head gaskets are leaking and need replacement (by the book). So I would go by that for negotiation, even if I can get by for a while. But its a risk id be taking. Its why I refuse to pay more than $7k for it. And ideally I would fight for my offer of $6k. But at $7000.01 I am fucking walking away lol. The line is drawn in the sand and I have to stand my ground on that.

Yeah someone else might pay more and all the power to them!

thejustache > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 11:03

I’m sorry to hear about that on what otherwise looked like a good clean car. That said, Subaru, so I’m glad you did the smart thing and got it checked!

On the other hand, the 92x linear I had also got flagged for a failing head gasket during the PPI. Being desperate for a car at the time I bought it anyways, but got the dealer to extend the warranty in the contract. Then I blew that myself by accidentally driving over the mileage clause in the warranty and the shop refused to do the work... lesson learned.

Bottom line, I drove that car for over 2 years and 65k like that with no issues before it was mercy killed by a deer, despite having a totally separate shop also telling me the head gasket was failing. Granted, that was a non turbo and I feel like a boosted car is going to be more likely to have problems, and if I certainly wouldn’t be buying a car with a known HG problem again unless I had a clear path to fix it. Just saying I do feel like sometimes shops are quick to see some seeping oil on a Subaru and say “it’s got a bad head gasket” because more often then not it does.

I also feel like the quoted repair prices are a bit steep? The shop I got my Outback XT at is a small used dealer that specializes in Subarus and does a ton of head gasket/timing belt jobs - in fact they do that on almost all their used cars which was one of my reasons in buying from them. I feel like they’d charge $2-3k for the whole thing, not $5 large... but I could be out of date on their pricing. Plus they’re nowhere near you... but looking for a small shop that does a bunch of subarus might help with the pricing

thejustache > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 11:08

Also I am curious about that red one - if the maintenance on it was so good, does that mean the timing belt was done at 100k and then again at 140k when the head gaskets were done? Or did he put off doing it for 40k until he did it all at once? If the later, all is fine now that it’s done but that doesn’t assure me other maintenance was done at the right intervals either

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > thejustache
10/25/2017 at 11:12

Yup, the quoted prices are crazy in my opinion. Its why Im happy to pay $7k. It would still be expensive to fix but I can delay the fix a bit and probably get that job in the 2.5k region by shopping around. At that price point I am happy. But Im not telling the seller that. Im just flat out saying theres 6k in repairs needed, so I need it for like $6k. And let him argue me up to $7k or i walk.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > thejustache
10/25/2017 at 11:14

So I talked to the guy since he got back to me quickly. He actually bought the car overheated with a bad head gasket and is a subaru tech that works in an independent shop. He fixed it up properly (included machining the heads) and did the other maintenance. So hence the high price on that one. Id be pretty comfortable for that one honestly but the Saab might come out cleaner and around the same price at a $7k purchase. Its not a terrible option though.

Clutch and timing belt and other stuff was done at the same time as the head gasket repair. So essentially exactly what needs doing in the Saab. Just its not leaking like that yet.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 11:38

That is very odd to hear. Seeing as it is a turbo motor which does not have the dreaded head gasket issue. Those were only the N/A 4 cyls because of the head gasket material. The Turbos and 6 cyls had a different head gasket style and didn’t fail.

Pich, with Z32 now featuring Civic [Si] / No > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 14:56

howd you get a PPI? dealer?

rockingthe2 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/25/2017 at 15:07

That is a clean 9-2x! It should have the 2.5 turbo in it, much better than the 2.0 in mine. The stupid gray interior stains with water though, cloth seats are even worse. I’ll second the comment that every Subaru needs $5k in work, that’s about what mine needs. You can also get flip keys for it, guy named Mike Fodor makes them on Facebook and they work great.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Pich, with Z32 now featuring Civic [Si] / No
10/25/2017 at 15:11

I asked the guy if he could do one. Then I asked if he had a shop he preferred to go to, just to make it a little easier since he seems trustworthy. And I figured if problems came back, then they are even more authentic. This was a shop that had worked on the car before too so there was a little history at least. It was easy to just call them, set it up, and pay over the phone. They sent me a printout and some pictures detailing the issues along with a quote for fixing the items.

It is a subaru performance shop and the guy in charge seemed to know his shit for sure! Best damn $100 I could have spent. Im sure any shop can offer a similar service.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > rockingthe2
10/25/2017 at 15:24

Yeah I have come to terms with the $5k in work thing lol. Its not as bad as my initial reaction to it as well as some others on here who arent that familiar with Subies. But I still will walk away if the price cant come down enough. I havent driven one yet so I cant make an emotionally rash decision lol.

rockingthe2 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/27/2017 at 15:57

You can buy my 9-2x for $3k! You’d have to ship it though, and it may need even more work haha.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > rockingthe2
10/28/2017 at 17:23

You got details? I don’t mind doing work at that price! As long as it’s an Aero

rockingthe2 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/31/2017 at 14:43

I’m outside of DC, if you’re serious, rockingthe2@gmail.com